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Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
10-18-2013, 10:47 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-18-2015, 10:29 PM by Skook.)
#11
RE: Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
October 18, 2013 Update:

Since my last update above, The Wharf Place has relisted six more units - all with new MLS numbers. Finally! Unit 208 still has its original MLS number which tells us the units were all originally listed 765 days ago.

So, now, instead of having all its units on the market at once, there are only seven. The commercial Unit 105 remains unsold and as I mentioned in the post above two of the sold commercial units are now available for lease. As I indicated in my September 16th update, the owner of condo Unit 207 is attempting to rent it with little luck it seems as it is still listed on the Malaspina Property Management website for $950/mth.

Here is an updated spreadsheet. Recent changes are indicated in blue.

(Dec 18, 2015: The outdated spreadsheet image has been removed. Click here for the most up-to-date spreadsheet. It will open in a new browser tab).
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10-29-2013, 01:40 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-29-2013, 01:41 PM by Skook.)
#12
RE: Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
October 29, 2013 Update:

Okay, so commercial unit #106 which The Wharf Place website indicated as "Sold" way, way back at the at the end of April via its floorplans (see first post spreadsheet - May 12) and then which I discovered as "not sold" via the Sunshine Coast Real Estate Guide (see 2nd post - May 15th) and then which was "Sold" (see September 8th post) is now, once again, "not sold". It's back on the market as a "New Listing."

[Image: attachment.php?aid=502]

I don't know what is a happening at The Wharf Place but this is really getting stupid. Now, as far as I can determine via the Koss website, Commercial Unit #105 remains "not sold" and the status of Units #102 & #103 is anybody's guess by now (see October 7th post).


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01-24-2014, 09:49 AM, (This post was last modified: 01-24-2014, 09:53 AM by Skook.)
#13
RE: Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
January 24, 2014 Update:

I’ve wondered since my first Wharf Place post back on May 12, 2013 if the day would come when the developer blinked and begin listing the condos for rent. Well, that day is here. Two second floor units went up on the Holywell Property Management website on January 21st - Wharf Place is testing the waters.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=714]

What other option does the developer have? Despite what The Wharf Place website floorplans indicate, only four of the 24 units have sold since the first pre-construction listings in Sept, 2011. Two of those sales occurred in 2013 after construction was completed in April, 2013. Even last September’s bonus offering on “the next 5 sales” managed to move only 1 unit. As for the commercial units, 105 & 106 remain unsold and the leasing status of units 102 & 103 won’t be known until next month. Not looking good.

So, what are the chances of renting out these unsold condos? Overall, it’s bleak and I mentioned that fact in my first post above. The demographics show there just isn’t a pool of young renters large enough to rent the Wharf Place condos and all the other units listed for rent on the coast. In fact, I would hazard to say the “pool” is almost non-existent. The image below shows the number of Coast Reporter Classified rental ads for January 22nd. If you add up Davis Bay, Wilson Creek, West Sechelt and Sechelt, the total is 29 in the District of Sechelt and there are more on Craiglist and some on Kijiji.

   

Those classifieds are for the most part secondary suites in homes. There are lots of houses for rent now, too, on the coast and some for less or not much more than that $1125/mth Wharf Place wants for that 2 bedroom condo - like this pretty cute cabin for $1000/mth which is also listed on the Holywell site. Nope, it’s not looking good at all.


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01-30-2014, 05:19 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-30-2014, 06:02 PM by Skook.)
#14
RE: Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
It’s humble pie time, again. It took less than a week for those two units mentioned in my post above to disappear from the Holywell Property Management site, so I have to assume they’ve been rented. Actually, when I stop and think about it the speed at which they disappeared shouldn’t surprise me because I know from my own experience what you face when looking for rentals in the Sechelt area.

There are next to no apartment rental buildings in the town. The vast majority of rentals are lower suites in homes and they have a lot of drawbacks. With many you have to share laundry, with many natural lighting is at a premium, with many they’ve been squeezed into small spaces at minimum expense and with most there is no separate hydro meter so you are stuck paying what the home owner thinks is your "fair" share. So, for these spanking new Wharf Place condos to come onto the rental market - well, it’s like manna from heaven for renters.

Now, there’s another condo building with units going on the rental market and that’s the Watermark. Of course, it’s not the developer making them available but unit owners who obviously have no intention of living in them and want some help with the mortgage until the time is judged right to flip. I thought it might be interesting to do a brief comparison and see which offers more bang for the buck - The Wharf Place, on the left, or Watermark, on the right.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=730]

Let’s look at one of those last week Wharf Place rental listings - Unit 203. It’s a 944sf 2bed/2bath unit and the asking rent was $1125/mth. The image below shows the Holywell listing and the unit’s floorplan. The listing gave no mention of hydro and gas, so I will assume you have to pay for both and obviously the phone if you want a land line and then there's cable/internet, too. If you have a room-mate lined up, then splitting the asking rent works out to $562.50/mth which is really cheap for the Sunshine Coast. This unit is on the backside of the building (facing east) so there is no streetview and only morning sun.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=731]

At the Watermark, Holywell is listing Unit 312. Now, it’s in Phase 2 which isn’t completed yet so the rental ad says available in March or April. Guess the owner wants to get a jump on any competition from fellow investors. Now this unit is the smallest available at Watermark at 645sf with 1 bed/1bath. The “X” on the Watermark picture above shows the unit’s location in Phase 1 and since Phase 2 is a mirror image of Phase 1 the location is the same in both buildings. As you can see, it faces Teredo St. The owner is asking $1100/mth for this wee unit. Last August, one owner in Phase 1 was seeking $1250/mth for their similar unit and eventually settled for $1050/mth. Now, I think you'ld have to admit you're not likely to want to share a unit this size even with a spouse so that’s a hefty rent for going solo especially after you add in hydro, gas, cable, internet, etc. Lastly, this unit faces north so you may briefly catch a bit of morning sun coming in but that’s it.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=732]

It just so happens after Units 203 and 205 moved at Wharf Place another unit was immediately put up for rent - Unit 207. I have marked its location with an “X” on the Wharf Place image up above. This unit is one of the few that has actually sold and was bought back in 2012. As you can see, the owner wants $975/mth for this 680sf 1 bed/1bath unit. Now, it’s similar in size to the Watermark unit but this one has a much larger balcony and it faces west so there will be lots of afternoon sun which is a real bonus especially in winter. Again, you're not likely to want to share so the lower rent is a definite plus.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=733]

Now, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder but I mentioned earlier in these Wharf Place posts I like this project and if I were in a market for a condo I would be picking Wharf Place over the Watermark; well, the same holds true went it comes to renting.

So, I am glad to see Wharf Place having some luck with rentals; however, it means the developer won’t be signing off on this project anytime soon. It’s also not the best situation for those who have bought in and are actually living in their units - so if I were them, I would want to see renters sign a lease so there isn’t a continuous in and out of strangers. It should be interesting to watch how the developer proceeds in the months ahead.

Take a look at the Wharf Place Gallery - I like all those windows in that corner unit - darn, I just figured out that is Unit 308 and it just sold last week for $323,099 (1289sf, 2bd/2bth + flex room) - jeez, what am I saying I can't afford a condo even at Wharf Place prices...LOL. I've obviously been spending too much time with Watermark and it has distorted by sense of reality. Well, if I win a lottery maybe I will go after Unit 304 in WP - I need windows lots and lots of windows - not walls of glass but big, big windows.


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06-21-2014, 02:54 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-18-2015, 10:39 PM by Skook.)
#15
RE: Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
June 21, 2014 Update:

A Wharf Place update is long overdue. The last time I posted a spreadsheet was back in October and at that time there had been four condo unit sales. As of June 12, 2014, the total condo units sold (definite MLS sales data) stands at 7 with those additional sales occurring in January, May and June. So, 7 of 24 units have been sold or 29%. (Units sold: 201. 204, 207, 301, 302, 308, 311).

As for the commercial units, two remain unsold (#105, #106) and any that had been listed for lease appear to have been rented.

(Dec 18, 2015: The outdated spreadsheet image has been removed. Click here for the most up-to-date spreadsheet. It will open in a new browser tab).

There’s been a June Promo and we can see the ad that appeared in the Sunshine Coast Real Estate Guide on the left. The ad on the right appeared in the Coast Reporter RE Weekly on June 6th and 20th.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=938]

It’s possible the promo generated the May and June 5th sale; however, I don’t think there must have been an overwhelming response since the Sales office hours were reduced to Saturday and Sunday 12 to 3 beginning with the June 13 RE Weekly.

As of today, there are 89 condo units listed in the core area of Sechelt.


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08-29-2014, 11:20 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-18-2015, 10:31 PM by Skook.)
#16
RE: Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
There are days when I think the majority of viewers to these Sunshine Coast posts are SC real estate agents and perhaps the profiled projects’ developers and yesterday was definitely one of those days. What happened was The Wharf Place threw all remaining units onto MLS and dropped prices by $10,000 to $64,000 (Unit 304/Unit 211) off the current listing prices. If you go back to the original 2011 list prices, that drop is $35,000 - $65,000 (-15.6% to -19.4%).

It is almost as if someone read my August 26, 2014 Edgewater at Porpoise Bay post and said, “Whoa, look at the attached units now listed in Sechelt (109 units) and potentially coming on stream by spring 2015 (153 units). We’ve got to do something. It’s time to dump, take our losses and just get the hell out of here.”

However, as much as I may wish to think my posts might move mountains, I am sure the decision to cut and run was made at the end of July after its rather dismal sales showing which more or less indicated the party was over for 2014.

Here is The Wharf Place updated spreadsheet. In the “Notes” column, the price drop from the current list price is indicated in black. The price drop from the original 2011 list price is in red and bracketed. (Note: I have hidden two columns for the years 2011 and 2012 to make the spreadsheet smaller. The information from those columns - two sold units - has been placed at the bottom of the 2013 “List” column)

(Dec 18, 2015: The outdated spreadsheet image has been removed. Click here for the most up-to-date spreadsheet. It will open in a new browser tab).

Now, the question is will the units move even at these prices? If you compare The Wharf Place to Watermark, these units are practically being given away; but, are there enough buyers to take advantage of these discounted prices? What about investors snapping them up? Okay, but are there enough renters in Sechelt to then fill the units at a rent that at least covers the mortgage and all the additional purchase expenses while making a few bucks? Well, I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
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03-20-2015, 01:21 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-11-2015, 01:11 PM by Skook.)
#17
RE: Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
any updates skook
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04-11-2015, 01:05 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-18-2015, 10:27 PM by Skook.)
#18
RE: Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
April 11, 2015 Update

Ask Skook and ye shall receive...eventually. This post is for georgie girl.

There is no doubt about it an update for The Wharf Place was long overdue. My last post was back at the end of August and much has changed since then. I had to go into the back issues of the Sunshine Coast Real Estate Guide (SCREG), the Coast Reporter Real Estate Weekly (RE Weekly) and my saved notes to refresh my memory - I think I have a handle on it all now.

I’ve been able to keep track of condo sales, but I needed to hunt for the status of the two remaining commercial units (#105, #106). The answer was in the October 2014 SCREG. SC Realtors Steve & Tracy Koss have handled this project since day one and their ad informed us all that by the end of September all Wharf Place commercial units were sold. I can do better than that though and say that both units likely sold between mid-August to mid-September and were likely bought together because Koss had both units listed for lease in the Sept 19, 2014 RE Weekly. The two units have been listed for lease every month since.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=1091]

As for the residential units, here is the sales progression according to Koss’ SCREG ads:

October, 2014: 50% Sold
November, 2014: 50% Sold
December, 2014/January 2015 (combined issue): 65% Sold
February 2015: 75% Sold
March 2015: 75% Sold
April 2015: 80% Sold

The best that I can come up with as of April 9, 2015 is 71% sold – definitively that is. My spreadsheet shows 17 units sold; six units currently listed for sale; and, one unit (#208) is a mystery – it was taken off the market sometime after August, I can’t find any sold info and it has not been relisted. My guess is that #208 is rented out since the developer did place a small number of units on the rental market in late-2013 and early 2014.

Now, before I post my updated spreadsheet I have interesting info to share. During the boom years around 2005 both the District of Sechelt and the Town of Gibsons adopted a policy of requiring developers to incorporate “affordable housing” units into their projects. For single family housing developments, this might equate into one or two lots with “affordable” duplexes/townhomes. For condo projects, a deal would be worked out between council and developer for one or two units to have more “affordable” pricing with the buyer going through the town to acquire the unit. With the collapse of real estate in 2007, many of those “affordable” homes never got built in subdivisions – I’m talking here of ‘The Ridge’ and ‘Tyler Heights’ in Sechelt as examples. After 2011, developers were going back to councils for rezoning because multi-family unit sales had collapsed and they wanted to replace those as yet to be built “affordable” units with single family homes. I think their argument likely went along the lines that there was now a glut of multi-family units leading to falling prices which in turn meant they could no longer cover their building costs.

The Wharf Place went to council, too. As part and parcel of its development zoning back in 2011, CSA signed a housing agreement with the DOS whereby it set aside Unit #202 - this 1bed/1bath, back facing unit has been indicated as “Sold” from the moment the project’s website went live. The unit was listed along with all units in September 2011 and carried a list price of $229,000; however, the Housing Agreement document seems to indicate (Item 1(i), pg 4) a “Maximum Price” to $200,000 including GST. As a result of this Housing Agreement, Unit 202 would carry an “affordable housing” covenant on its title. Early this year (likely January), the developer approached the DOS and asked for this covenant to be removed.

The town council discussed the issue “in camera” during a regular council meeting in February and the following resolution appeared on page 25 of the 2015-03-18 RC Agenda (Mar 18, 2015 Regular Council Agenda):

[Image: attachment.php?aid=1092]

My guess is the developer’s argument went along the lines that in three years there was not one “affordable housing” request and that due to market conditions there were now plenty of “affordable housing” units available in Sechelt listed well below that maximum covenant price. Council obviously agreed. You can view this Housing Agreement by going to...

DOS website > Document Library and scrolling down to '503, 2011 – CSA Developments Housing Agreement.pdf'

Unit 202 sold in February for $174,905 – possibly with the taxes included if “special conditions” were met; that is, if The Wharf Place website banner isn’t outdated.

Here is The Wharf Place spreadsheet (updated on April 9, 2015). It’s a biggy – click on the small image and it will open up in a new browser tab. You can save it if you wish by right clicking and choosing “Save Image As” or something similar depending on your browser. It would definitely be easier to handle if saved and then printed out.

(Note: outdated spreadsheet removed. Up-to-date spreadsheet (Dec 18, 2015) can be found here)

******************************

I’m going to conclude this post by having a little fun at someone else’s expense.

Back on Dec 7, 2014, a Wharf Place Craigslist ad appeared. It was for a furnished, 1 bedroom and the asking price was $1500/mth. I thought that was a bit much even if furnished and sure enough within a week the price was lowered to $1300/mth (first image below). It still didn’t move and just before Christmas the asking rent was dropped again to $1200/mth (middle image). On January 1st, it was relisted at that $1200/mth and I stopped following it after January 11th. I think it disappeared sometime in February.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=1094]

That ad above carried this simple description below and contact was to be made through the CL board:

Quote:Wharf Place , one bedroom, 14 feet ceilings, Ocean view. Furnished with brand new furniture, 40" TV. Washer, dryer, gas fireplace, lots of storage.

ROFLOL...note it says “Ocean view” – in your dreams maybe (or if you stand on the building’s roof and look off into the distance (check out the location map in my very first post on May 12, 2013 and see if you agree with me. Keep in mind the google map is more accurate than that little insert I added from the developer’s website.) Whether on the second or third floor, there is no ocean view from inside the 1 bedroom units. Correct me if I’m wrong, but...

Now, it wasn’t that ad above that was so amusing; it was the ad that joined it within a week. There was a connection between these units because they initially shared the same photos. One unit photo showed an older couple (as in definitely “retired”) sneaking into the edge of the kitchen area photo. This new ad was also for a furnished 1 bedroom and my thought was that these could be the 3rd floor 1 bedroom units (305, 307) sold on the exact same day – Nov 17, 2014.

So, this unit’s ad made its first appearance on Dec 14th asking for $1650/mth. Now, I already knew $1500/mth didn’t work for the unit above so it was just a matter of time. A few days later, new pics were added (the furniture had arrived, I guessed), but the rental price remained the same – 2nd pic from left. Just before Christmas, the rental price changed...ROFLOL...to $11,425!!. “Lordy,” I said, “We have ourselves a real newbie. Let see how long this takes to notice the typo.” Not ‘til Jan 11th!

[Image: attachment.php?aid=1095]

It’s the write-up included with this listing that I particularly enjoyed and it spoke volumes to me. Like I said I felt they were landlord newbies and that this might be their very first foray into real estate investing, too, given the sheer exuberance of the write-up. Here’s the wording and its progression over the weeks. I have added the bold highlighting to emphasize the pricing.

Dec 14th write-up:
Quote:Seeking a PIED À TERRE in the heart of the Sunshine Coast? Make this fully furnished one-bedroom condominium your residence in Sechelt. Featuring unusually high quality furnishings and decor, everything spanking new and outfitted for comfort. Nicely located near town centre, a close walk to everything. Spacious and airy high ceilings, a cozy gas fireplace and a view to the ocean. Ready to move in. More pictures available on request. Utilities, parking all included at $1650/month.

Dec 17th write-up:
Quote:Seeking a PIED À TERRE in the heart of the Sunshine Coast? Make this fully furnished one-bedroom condominium your residence in Sechelt. Share your Wharf Place address with only 24 others in a new and exclusive complex, nicely located near town centre, a close walk to everything. Featuring unusually high quality furnishings and decor, everything spanking new and outfitted for comfort. Spacious and airy high ceilings, a cozy gas fireplace and a view to the ocean. Ready to move in and veg out in your reclining chair in front of the fireplace. More pictures available on request. Utilities, parking all included at $1650/month.

Dec 22nd write-up:
Quote:Seeking accommodation in the heart of the Sunshine Coast? Make this fully furnished one-bedroom condominium your residence in Sechelt. Only 24 units in this new and exclusive complex, nicely located near town centre, a close walk to everything. Featuring unusually high quality furnishings and decor, everything spanking new and outfitted for comfort. Spacious and airy high ceilings, a cozy gas fireplace and a view to the ocean. Ready to move in and veg out in your reclining chair in front of the fireplace. Utilities, parking all included at $1425/month.

By Jan 11. 2015:
Quote:Fully furnished one-bedroom condominium in Sechelt. New and exclusive complex, nicely located near town centre, a close walk to everything. Featuring high quality furnishings and decor, everything new and outfitted for comfort. Spacious and airy high ceilings, cozy gas fireplace, view to the ocean. Ready to move in and veg out in your reclining chair in front of the fireplace. Parking included. Wi-fi, hydro hooked up, sign your own contract for use. $1225/month for 12 months' lease, $1325/month for six months' lease, $1425/month for 3 months' lease.

When I saw that last write-up with its 3 levels of rent, I gave up following. I figured this could take forever and I had better things to do. Now, this ad included both a land-line phone number and a cell number, so within minutes I knew who owned this unit. I think this ad disappeared in February, too.

As I said, there is a connection somehow between the two units. Maybe this couple owns both and they made a contest out it with each taking a unit and seeing who could rent it first at the highest rent. Or perhaps it’s a couple and offspring scenario with the son or daughter talking their parents into investing in a sure winner. Units 305 and 307 sold for a smidge past $170,000. The idea behind it being that when mom and dad are ready to downsize they have a condo to move to and in the meantime someone else is paying off the mortgage. Or, maybe the parents talked the kid into buying and helped with the down payment. My final scenario has two couples that are good friends each buying a unit and sharing pics.

Anyways, I was amused for the time it lasted.

******************************

This is my last big update for the Wharf Place. I am glad that sales finally picked up for the developer; although, one has to wonder if any profits have been realized given the price drops, promos, commissions and time span. My research left me with the impression this was a first development project – it may well be the last, too.


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08-23-2015, 01:47 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-23-2015, 04:52 AM by Skook.)
#19
RE: Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
Good day Skook

Very informative site, cheers for all your work. Notice from earlier pinned threads you have been thru some trying times, as we all have. I assume all is well and that is great news.

I am a very new member, with an interest in the Sunshine Coast.

In going thru the threads, I was looking for info on the condo/town homes at 5761 Wharf Ave., near the lighthouse.

Would be interested in what you or others have to say about these properties, their history and current value for money given how they are listed today, seem to be in the 180+\- range. That sounds inflated based on what I see here, but interested in this forums thoughts.

Any and all opinions would be appreciated.

Cheers
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08-24-2015, 07:16 AM,
#20
RE: Sechelt Development - The Wharf Place
Hey Plelt, welcome to VanPeak. Glad to read you’re finding the posts here helpful.

As you’ve discovered there are more than a few developments I’ve not tackled and the Royal Reach townhomes were one. As you are aware, there are currently 4 townhomes listed there. I highly recommend viewing those lists using SC Realtor Gary Little’s interactive real estate map which shows current price drops and days on market. Little says those who register for a free account “have access to more data and some advanced features” (I wonder if this includes “Sold” data – might be worth checking it out?) As well, I suggest exploring the development using BC Assessment’s property search website. For condos and townhomes, you must enter the address correctly to view the data. For example, Unit 18, 5761 Wharf Ave is typed...

18-5761 Wharf Ave Sechelt

Note that there is no space on either side of hyphen. As well, the site has an auto response feature that offers addresses as you type and when you see the address you are looking for you can click on it.

The property page will be given this year’s and last year’s assessment (good info for negotiating). As well, you can click on “Show More” for unit details including whether or not it sold in the last 3 years and at what price. You can check out each individual unit by scrolling down to the map and clicking on the dark triangle labelled 5761. A box will appear and you then click on the down arrow to the right side and a drop down menu will appear showing all the units and you can go through the lot of them.

Now, I have gone through some saved sales data going back to 2011 and overall unit sale values have dropped at Royal Reach. Here’s what happened to two units that sold in May this year...

#39 – 2 storey, 2bed/2bath, 1141sf. Listed Oct 2014 @ $195,000. Went through 3 price drops ($184,900. $179,900, $175,000) and sold for $170,000.

#31 – 2 storey, 2bed/2bath, 1040sf. Listed Mar 2015 @ $189,000. Sold for $179,500.

What is interesting about #31 is that it was listed back in Mar 2013 @ $214,900 and didn’t sell. There were no sales at Royal Reach in 2013. I don’t know off hand about this unit in 2014 – I didn’t dig.

In 2011, #36 (2storey, 2bd/2ba, 1118sf) sold for $215,000. #12 (2storey, 2bd/2½ba, 1655sf) sold for $300,000.

In 2012, #19 (End unit, 1½storey, 2bd/2ba, 1021sf) sold for $178,000. #32 (2storey, 2bd/2ba, 1149sf) sold for $205,000.
#10 (says rancher TH, 2bd/2ba, 1280sf) sold for $197,000.

In 2014, #43(2storey, 2bd/2ba, 1078sf) sold for $172,500. #34 (2storey, 2bd/2ba, 1076sf) sold for $195,000.

Some of those selling price differences may be due to having a water view or not (as you know this is not a waterfront development. Another factor that may be pulling prices down is the age of the development – approaching the 25 year mark. Have or will owners be facing any special assessments?

Well, that’s the best I can do for you Plelt. Hope it helps and let us know how the search goes. Tell us what you’re seeing out there and what impressions of the SC that you’re getting. Don’t hesitate to start a new thread if you have an interest that isn’t covered by any other.
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